His and Channel Awesome's tale reminds me of how Team Four Star is kinda fracturing, and how Rooster Teeth fell to irrelevancy. These giants of early era unable to cope with their own shifting politics and comedic taste, egos and fan expectations. And assholery.
Irreverence only creates content for so long before burning itself out.
Thank you. Hopefully that doesn't happen and I didn't manifest anything.
Rooster Teeth's fall from grace was nothing short of depressing to watch. From scrappy innovators to corporate sell-outs, I don't think anyone truly embodies the tale of internet fame - or perhaps infamy - better than them, as in they're quite possibly the poster boys of what happens when a bunch of people totally and completely unprepared for wealth and fame find it thrust on them. I used to love Team Four Star's stuff but I haven't kept up with them in years. I'm surprised they're only just now fracturing. Mind filling me in on what happened?
I know nothing specific, but it was obvious Takahata and KaiserNeko were opposite ends of politics. I merely suspect that's part of why they decided to end it.
I also heavily suspect politics is also why Super Best Friends split. Matt's girl is obviously left. Paige however writes for the Dick Show and has talked with some notorious "alt right nazis" like Killstream(do not bother investigating, guy is an alcoholic degenerate now). I'm almost certain Pat and Paige refusing to disavow their right leaning friends was a fracture or final straw.
I completely forgot that those guys were even part of T4S, honestly. Still, not surprising. If it isn't pride and hubris that ends up felling these people, politics is a pretty reliable contender for the alternative case.
I'm also fairly certain politics split SBFP as well. I remember when that happened. Even though I wasn't the biggest fan of their channel, I still hate to see friendships tear apart over politics.
Castle Super Beast, Pat and Woolie's successor podcast, is honestly better without Matt. I highly recommend it if you want to keep up with videogame news from industry background fiascos to which games are actually good. While Matt started doing retrospectives ad nauseum, Pat has a kid and Woolie got payed to do the official lore digest on Guilty Gear.
Its episode titles and colorful language prevent it from getting on any top ten lists of podcast, and yet it is still high up there in listeners.
I'm wondering if the Something Witty and the various people behind the Amazing Digital Circus will go down this route, but they seem to be extremely stable from a glance.
That's good to hear. I always thought Pat was the funnier of the two and I still follow Woolie's solo material somewhat. I always liked him; he reminds me a lot of an old friend of mine and he seems to have a pretty level head, despite looking like a carnival clown show.
Also, interesting you should mention Gooseworx. They seem to be pretty stable but literally in the past few days a private NSFW Twitter account they run was discovered that focused on some... very unusual paraphilia that, really, if you look at their work, really shouldn't be all that surprising that they enjoy. And none of the content was unethical, illegal, or truly grotesque, mind you, just... really, really weird. But the end result was that a few days ago a stream held by the publishers of Digital Circus featuring Gooseworx, some of the VA's, and other independent content creators affiliated with Glitch Studios were doxxed en masse... though the plot thickened when apparently it came out that it was also a protest for their association with Vivziepop since apparently Gooseworx did the music for Hazbin Hotel, which continues to serve as a fucking perpetual-motion engine of drama and discord, and it feels more and more like there's a militant effort by Twitter users to completely banish her from polite society.
I really liked the pilot for the Amazing Digital Circus and I think Gooseworx, despite being a very eclectic individual, makes good stuff, so I really hope that they and everyone involved with Glitch Studios keeps their shit straight and their nose clean. I'd hate to see them or the guys who do that one robot show they put out end up like the Rooster Teeth crew.
It's always difficult to watch someone with deeply rooted issues struggle with the difficulties of a self-feeding addiction, and let's face it, that's exactly what Spoony's obsessive usage of Twitter was and, in some ways, continues to be. We see in him a microcosm of the same core problems that have ultimately laid other nerd/geek culture giants low, with Blizzard probably being the single greatest example - an awkward but genuinely passionate guy puts in the effort to bring that passion to reality, gets his taste of fame, and it swiftly starts to swell his head.
Spoony's fall from grace is certainly sordid, as were the falls of many Channel Awesome creators. He made a lot of grievous errors along the way, developed bad habits, and fed into a cyclical nature of destructive behaviors that he's only now starting to pull himself out of. Will he succeed? Who knows. I hope he does, though. There's nothing more American than a good redemption story, and for as much of a prick as he could be, I think Spoony's due for some redemption. Here's hoping he finds his passion again, and that he's finally obtained enough wisdom to temper what comes with it.
Hubris - mankind's oldest enemy. Pride is prime among the cardinal sins for a reason. It does seem to be quite a reliable cycle among staples of nerd culture. I have theories as to why but it's kind of incredible how frequently these cases of dramatic rises and equally dramatic falls from self-inflicted wounds are.
Simple: Nerds are The Smart People. The superior specimens of humanity. The Geek Shall Inherit The Earth. If you think of yourself first as a nerd - especially if you're old enough to have been bullied for it - your intellectual superiority is the fundamental pillar of your identity. I have been deep in the mire of that, and only when I found Christ was I able to get over myself.
I definitely think that plays no small role in it, and I think it was more pronounced in early generations that comprised "nerd culture" that did experience bullying, or at least social isolation, because of their interests. Even though I can't say the sense of persecution and bitterness towards "the normals" that some always seemed to carry around was the most flattering, and certainly not healthy, I think the outsider ethos was part of what made those scenes as robust as they were, and in no small part the loss of that eclectic outsider spirit, the mad brilliance of the outcast genius, was lost when "nerd culture" and the mainstream began to blend together.
Having been a similar kind of awkward kid to many of these nerd creators myself, which is to say the quiet kid who did (and in some ways still does) poorly in highly social situations and didn't really understand or care to deal with popularity, I imagine we both have similar hypotheses. I find the timing of it all a bit funny, too, because the frequency of these cases always seems to come in waves. Sometimes it's because you get groups of these types who actively and frequently work together such as with CA, Blizzard, or the above mentioned Rooster Teeth. Other times it seems to be a domino effect that hits people who are tangentially related, often through prior collaboration or employment, spreading from and to each individual/organization affected like a fast moving infection driven by a toxified game of Five Degrees of Kevin Bacon. End results are almost always messy in a way that's extremely difficult to clean off, because if people love watching anything, it's a disaster.
Again, funny you should bring that up, because it seems that kind of domino effect you're talking about is currently taking place around Vivziepop as other creators that worked on Hazbin Hotel are being doxxed and harassed for their association with her, which is resulting in some turning on her. Vivziepop, for all her faults, seems to have a remarkable resiliency to just... not go away, I guess, and now that she's made inroads in the professional animation industry I doubt she's going anywhere, but it's pretty incredible how one person's questionable behavior can indeed set off this chain reaction of people around them totally imploding.
That's a surprisingly similar situation to how CA as a whole fell from grace, too. From what I've seen as an outsider who only occasionally looks in, it seems to be that some of those who worked with Vivz in the past are pissed they weren't kept on for HH, so they got pissy and blamed her for it. (As if Amazon or A23 weren't the ones with final say there.) That drama lead to what it always does, the dirty laundry being dragged out, so now others are raging at them, which is leading to yet more dirty laundry and yet more rage, and so the cycle continues, ad infinitum.
Yeah, I'm only tangentially aware of the drama about the original cast for Hazbin Hotel being dismissed and an entirely new ensemble being brought on for the actual series., but... I may or may not be looking into it more. Not to give the plot away for the next article on the docket. The thing is though every time I think I reach the bottom of the Vivziepop rabbit hole, it just... keeps... going. I honestly do not think I've ever seen something engender this much fucking drama before, ever.
It's fucking incredible, right? So much drama, so much insane, virulent, and vitriolic fanaticism, (root word of fan and fandom for a reason!) over a cartoon that only had ONE episode until earlier this week. And then that lunacy spreads to Helluva Boss and all the apparent weirdness that people called Vivz out for well before she made any of this happen and fuck, the fact that I'm aware of this much when I only pay passive attention speaks to how much of a sinkhole this has to be.
I'm fairly certain they would, but do to the nature of video games, the insular culture around them - especially circa the early 2000's - and the internet, I think it was a perfect recipe for bringing in people who were unbalanced from the start.
What a good tribute. I hope he can find some peace and stability in his life and yes deleting Twitter would be a good start. Nothing good ever came from Twitter, nothing. Peace
Bravo. A fine eulogy if he were to die tomorrow.
His and Channel Awesome's tale reminds me of how Team Four Star is kinda fracturing, and how Rooster Teeth fell to irrelevancy. These giants of early era unable to cope with their own shifting politics and comedic taste, egos and fan expectations. And assholery.
Irreverence only creates content for so long before burning itself out.
Thank you. Hopefully that doesn't happen and I didn't manifest anything.
Rooster Teeth's fall from grace was nothing short of depressing to watch. From scrappy innovators to corporate sell-outs, I don't think anyone truly embodies the tale of internet fame - or perhaps infamy - better than them, as in they're quite possibly the poster boys of what happens when a bunch of people totally and completely unprepared for wealth and fame find it thrust on them. I used to love Team Four Star's stuff but I haven't kept up with them in years. I'm surprised they're only just now fracturing. Mind filling me in on what happened?
I know nothing specific, but it was obvious Takahata and KaiserNeko were opposite ends of politics. I merely suspect that's part of why they decided to end it.
I also heavily suspect politics is also why Super Best Friends split. Matt's girl is obviously left. Paige however writes for the Dick Show and has talked with some notorious "alt right nazis" like Killstream(do not bother investigating, guy is an alcoholic degenerate now). I'm almost certain Pat and Paige refusing to disavow their right leaning friends was a fracture or final straw.
I completely forgot that those guys were even part of T4S, honestly. Still, not surprising. If it isn't pride and hubris that ends up felling these people, politics is a pretty reliable contender for the alternative case.
I'm also fairly certain politics split SBFP as well. I remember when that happened. Even though I wasn't the biggest fan of their channel, I still hate to see friendships tear apart over politics.
Castle Super Beast, Pat and Woolie's successor podcast, is honestly better without Matt. I highly recommend it if you want to keep up with videogame news from industry background fiascos to which games are actually good. While Matt started doing retrospectives ad nauseum, Pat has a kid and Woolie got payed to do the official lore digest on Guilty Gear.
Its episode titles and colorful language prevent it from getting on any top ten lists of podcast, and yet it is still high up there in listeners.
I'm wondering if the Something Witty and the various people behind the Amazing Digital Circus will go down this route, but they seem to be extremely stable from a glance.
That's good to hear. I always thought Pat was the funnier of the two and I still follow Woolie's solo material somewhat. I always liked him; he reminds me a lot of an old friend of mine and he seems to have a pretty level head, despite looking like a carnival clown show.
Also, interesting you should mention Gooseworx. They seem to be pretty stable but literally in the past few days a private NSFW Twitter account they run was discovered that focused on some... very unusual paraphilia that, really, if you look at their work, really shouldn't be all that surprising that they enjoy. And none of the content was unethical, illegal, or truly grotesque, mind you, just... really, really weird. But the end result was that a few days ago a stream held by the publishers of Digital Circus featuring Gooseworx, some of the VA's, and other independent content creators affiliated with Glitch Studios were doxxed en masse... though the plot thickened when apparently it came out that it was also a protest for their association with Vivziepop since apparently Gooseworx did the music for Hazbin Hotel, which continues to serve as a fucking perpetual-motion engine of drama and discord, and it feels more and more like there's a militant effort by Twitter users to completely banish her from polite society.
I really liked the pilot for the Amazing Digital Circus and I think Gooseworx, despite being a very eclectic individual, makes good stuff, so I really hope that they and everyone involved with Glitch Studios keeps their shit straight and their nose clean. I'd hate to see them or the guys who do that one robot show they put out end up like the Rooster Teeth crew.
Let's hope he does change.
It's always difficult to watch someone with deeply rooted issues struggle with the difficulties of a self-feeding addiction, and let's face it, that's exactly what Spoony's obsessive usage of Twitter was and, in some ways, continues to be. We see in him a microcosm of the same core problems that have ultimately laid other nerd/geek culture giants low, with Blizzard probably being the single greatest example - an awkward but genuinely passionate guy puts in the effort to bring that passion to reality, gets his taste of fame, and it swiftly starts to swell his head.
Spoony's fall from grace is certainly sordid, as were the falls of many Channel Awesome creators. He made a lot of grievous errors along the way, developed bad habits, and fed into a cyclical nature of destructive behaviors that he's only now starting to pull himself out of. Will he succeed? Who knows. I hope he does, though. There's nothing more American than a good redemption story, and for as much of a prick as he could be, I think Spoony's due for some redemption. Here's hoping he finds his passion again, and that he's finally obtained enough wisdom to temper what comes with it.
Hubris - mankind's oldest enemy. Pride is prime among the cardinal sins for a reason. It does seem to be quite a reliable cycle among staples of nerd culture. I have theories as to why but it's kind of incredible how frequently these cases of dramatic rises and equally dramatic falls from self-inflicted wounds are.
Simple: Nerds are The Smart People. The superior specimens of humanity. The Geek Shall Inherit The Earth. If you think of yourself first as a nerd - especially if you're old enough to have been bullied for it - your intellectual superiority is the fundamental pillar of your identity. I have been deep in the mire of that, and only when I found Christ was I able to get over myself.
I definitely think that plays no small role in it, and I think it was more pronounced in early generations that comprised "nerd culture" that did experience bullying, or at least social isolation, because of their interests. Even though I can't say the sense of persecution and bitterness towards "the normals" that some always seemed to carry around was the most flattering, and certainly not healthy, I think the outsider ethos was part of what made those scenes as robust as they were, and in no small part the loss of that eclectic outsider spirit, the mad brilliance of the outcast genius, was lost when "nerd culture" and the mainstream began to blend together.
Having been a similar kind of awkward kid to many of these nerd creators myself, which is to say the quiet kid who did (and in some ways still does) poorly in highly social situations and didn't really understand or care to deal with popularity, I imagine we both have similar hypotheses. I find the timing of it all a bit funny, too, because the frequency of these cases always seems to come in waves. Sometimes it's because you get groups of these types who actively and frequently work together such as with CA, Blizzard, or the above mentioned Rooster Teeth. Other times it seems to be a domino effect that hits people who are tangentially related, often through prior collaboration or employment, spreading from and to each individual/organization affected like a fast moving infection driven by a toxified game of Five Degrees of Kevin Bacon. End results are almost always messy in a way that's extremely difficult to clean off, because if people love watching anything, it's a disaster.
Again, funny you should bring that up, because it seems that kind of domino effect you're talking about is currently taking place around Vivziepop as other creators that worked on Hazbin Hotel are being doxxed and harassed for their association with her, which is resulting in some turning on her. Vivziepop, for all her faults, seems to have a remarkable resiliency to just... not go away, I guess, and now that she's made inroads in the professional animation industry I doubt she's going anywhere, but it's pretty incredible how one person's questionable behavior can indeed set off this chain reaction of people around them totally imploding.
That's a surprisingly similar situation to how CA as a whole fell from grace, too. From what I've seen as an outsider who only occasionally looks in, it seems to be that some of those who worked with Vivz in the past are pissed they weren't kept on for HH, so they got pissy and blamed her for it. (As if Amazon or A23 weren't the ones with final say there.) That drama lead to what it always does, the dirty laundry being dragged out, so now others are raging at them, which is leading to yet more dirty laundry and yet more rage, and so the cycle continues, ad infinitum.
Yeah, I'm only tangentially aware of the drama about the original cast for Hazbin Hotel being dismissed and an entirely new ensemble being brought on for the actual series., but... I may or may not be looking into it more. Not to give the plot away for the next article on the docket. The thing is though every time I think I reach the bottom of the Vivziepop rabbit hole, it just... keeps... going. I honestly do not think I've ever seen something engender this much fucking drama before, ever.
It's fucking incredible, right? So much drama, so much insane, virulent, and vitriolic fanaticism, (root word of fan and fandom for a reason!) over a cartoon that only had ONE episode until earlier this week. And then that lunacy spreads to Helluva Boss and all the apparent weirdness that people called Vivz out for well before she made any of this happen and fuck, the fact that I'm aware of this much when I only pay passive attention speaks to how much of a sinkhole this has to be.
One question I have is, if you were to take a different random assortment of nerds from the same time period, would they have similar problems?
Or is it that the job description, "angry young man obsessively dissects video games in public," simply tends to attract unhealthy individuals?
I'm fairly certain they would, but do to the nature of video games, the insular culture around them - especially circa the early 2000's - and the internet, I think it was a perfect recipe for bringing in people who were unbalanced from the start.
Very well done write up.
Thank you! This was one of my favorite series I’ve done. Always glad when someone finds it.
I remember his Twitter meltdown vividly. It was scary.
What a good tribute. I hope he can find some peace and stability in his life and yes deleting Twitter would be a good start. Nothing good ever came from Twitter, nothing. Peace
Incredibly sad story, but very good story telling. Thank you for the fascinating saga of Spoony.
And thank you for reading. One day, I hope there can be a happy ending to this story.